Forgotten Voices >
Interviews >
An interview with Ndaba David Nzunga, an unemployed community youth activist and music enthusiast from Rammolutsi, by Dale McKinley and Ahmed Veriava.
An interview with Ndaba David Nzunga, an unemployed community youth activist and music enthusiast from Rammolutsi, by Dale McKinley and Ahmed Veriava.
Audio File:
Download File: Download
Related Objects
David Nzungu, an unemployed community activist and music enthusiast of Rammolutsi, during an interview with Dale McKinley and Ahmed Veriava. (2007)
Download File: Download
Transcript:
Open/Close
Project name: Alternative History Project
Date of interview: 2007-07-27
Location of interview: Rammolutsi, Free State
Language of interview: English
Name of Interviewer/s: Dale McKinley & Ahmed Veriava
Name of Interviewee/s: Ndaba David Nzunga
Name of transcriber: Moses Moremi
Audio file name: AHP_RAM_NzungaNdabaDavid_20070727 INTERVIEW WITH NDABA DAVID NZUNGA
Dale McKinley (DM): Thanks very much again for agreeing to talk to us
Ndabe David Nzungu (NDN): Yes.
DM: Can you just for the record state your full names please?
NDN: My name is Ndaba David Nzunga.
DM: David how old are you?
NDN: I'm 21.
DM: So were you born here in Rammolutsi?
NDN: No I was born in the farm.
DM: So you were born in the plaas?
NDN: Yes.
DM: And where was that?
NDN: It is Good Hope just right here in Viljoenskroon district .. it's about 20km away.
DM: So I'm assuming that your parents were working on the farm?
NDN: Yes.
DM: What kind of work were they doing on the farm?
NDN: They were ploughing and doing all the kind of stuff on the farm.
DM: How long did you stay on that farm?
NDN: I was born there and stayed there until I was about 16 years, I think so.
DM: So tell us and feel free to tell us about anything ... tell us about what it was like growing up on the farm?
NDN: It was very good because I didn't know anything about the life of the location. Life was very simple and easy for me because everything you need you to get it, unlike here in the location where you seem to spend a lot when you need some things.
Ndaba David Nzunga: 2007-07-27: 1
DM: What kind of things when you say you need it, you get it?
NDN: Like, at the farm we used to get milk ... everything is there and you don't need to buy and go to a shop to look for this and this. Here in the location is a struggle. First of all you buy electricity, you buy food, you buy everything - but at the farm you don't see anything they buy because the owner of the farm is providing that.
DM: What kind of the house did you live in there on the farm with your family?
NDN: We were not living in something like this shack we were living in a proper house, a four room house.
DM: Water and electricity situation?
NDN: Yes there was electricity ... everything was there.
DM: Did you go to school at the farm school?
NDN: Yes I started to attend school there at the farm. Firstly it was crèche, a pre school and then I went to the school there at the farm from Grade 1 up until Grade 7 which is Standard five.
DM: Tell us a little bit about that school ... the character of the education?
NDN: Education at the farm was good. Teachers are paying attention and doing their work full time. I started to see a difference when I arrived here at the location because they are teaching according to their periods like each teacher is 30 minutes ... that was a little bit different at the farms because at the farms there is one teacher at a time and everything becomes easy because you are used to the teacher.
DM: And in terms of the availability of books and materials like that?
NDN: Books were always available because they have got a surplus of books because maybe the student are about 30 to 40 or 50 but some of them are still available at their store room.
DM: How about the relationship between your family and the farmer ... how was that? NDN: The farmer ... you mean that owner of the farm?
DM: That's right
NDN: The relationship was good because those white people they were just good people like others, they respected each other, they know what a person is.
DM: Were they Afrikaners?
NDN: Yes they were Afrikaners.
DM: Tell us some things about what you did as a child at the farm ... how you spent you time?
NDN: I was playing soccer at that time and I liked to be like a soccer journalist you know ... usually when people are playing I used to be like a commentator because that was in my blood since I was born. Unfortunately I did not get my dream come true up to so far.
Ndaba David Nzunga: 2007-07-27: 2
DM: In terms of other things that you did on the farm ... could you go anywhere you wanted to?
NDN: Anywhere where I wanted to ... No, I didn't go anywhere I wanted to because every time you are at the farm we I don't go anywhere else because it seems like you don't care about other places because where you are staying is comfortable ... because you are staying with a lot of people that you know and you are comfortable with them. Every morning when you wake up you see this person cause you know him and enjoy playing with him or her.
DM: Now you are 21 years old and if I get my maths correct that means you were born in 1986 ... is that is correct?
NDN: Yes.
DM: By the early 1990s you were about 4 or 5 years old right ... when things started to change. What do you remember about that time when things in the country were starting to change after the un-banning of the ANC and other liberations movement?
NDN: I didn't know a lot about politics then and a lot of things that happen around the world. I was interested in the soccer but other things, no they didn't come into my mind like politics. I only learned about politics when I was in about Standard five then I saw the direction of what was happening then. By the last year Mr. FW De Klerk was the President ... I used to watch the news with my father but wasn't understanding English ... like when I ask him what he is saying , but he didn't translate well.
DM: What do you remember about 1994, about April when the elections ... ?
NDN: About the elections, I do remember when the people of the farm came to the elections here. Yes I did come here in the location to see what was happening, climbing in the tractor that was coming here. There were a lot of queues at the secondary schools here at the location. I definitely knew that there were elections here and that people were here to vote. Then some of them voted in the secondary schools, some of them in the public halls, some in the town hall -that is where I ended up - I was in town then to see how people are going to the elections because there were .... tapes there that were stopping people to not cross over ... but I was still young ... that is what I remember that the people were voting ... there were a lot of people.
DM: Did your family and all the workers on the farm come to vote?
NDN: Yes they did come to vote.
DM: What were your father and your mother telling you about this whole thing?
NDN: They were telling me that people are voting for the political parties that they liked and there was this motto of the politics that your vote is your voice or your vote is your secret ... you don't have to tell anyone about the party that you voted for.
DM: You remember that time quite well?
NDN: Yes I remember it.
Ndaba David Nzunga: 2007-07-27: 3
DM: Did you feel even as a young 8 year old at that point that there was a sense of excitement about things that were coming because of this?
NDN: My father liked politics and I used to spend time with him while I was growing up. We used to argue with him about the ruling party and we used to argue that these people are not delivering and they are not doing this and this correct. But according to him he said I must stop and focus on things that they are doing, not the things that I think they can do. I used to see that we will never be in the same organisation or political party.
DM: So he was a very strong supporter of the government?
NDN: Yes he was because he used to watch the news ... I think he was a supporter.
DM: After 1994, did anything change on the farm ... the life you had experienced before?
NDN: Everything changed after that. I saw that the farm owners put the pre paid electricity whereby you have to take out some money to buy electricity. But before there was nothing like that, they were just coming and write the meter of the electricity that seems like nothing ... we were not buying electricity but they were paying for the electricity. They started to give people milk for free and I used to hear that when my father talked ... that when they wanted the wood for fire they were buying them but before they were not buying them ...
DM: So how did you understand why that changed?
NDN: The only thing that makes me understand what they changed is that there were other people who were starting to join the unions ... like when my father used to talk to my mother I used to listen sometimes ... he use to say that the farm owner told them to go to that Mandela maybe he will provide them with anything ... so I used to hear that there is some changes about the ruling of the ANC.
DM: Did you think that the changes had made the relationship worse on the farm ... how did you feel as a young child?
NDN: The new ruling of the ANC has changed the relationship a lot ... a lot of changes have happened there. So I saw that ANC has come with a difference between the owners of the farm and the workers. Some of the workers were not trusted by the owners of the farms according to my point of view ... because even if you lend a tractor to come to bring some food for your children at the location they were estimating you a time but for some people there was no time estimation.
DM: You stayed on that farm all throughout the 1990s. As the time after the first or second year after 1994 ... when these changes started to happen ... were there any differences say from '96 to 2000 in terms of the kinds of things that you used to have on the farm ... for example, the living standards, the housing, the basics services?
NDN: The things that we were not able to get at the farm was the street lights. They started to install the street lights. I used to hear the journalist on the radio say that the farmers must provide the street lights and provide the transport for the people who live in the farm so that they can come to town every month and do anything they like. And, that Ndaba David Nzunga: 2007-07-27: 4 they must start to make things like the bank account for the people who live in the farms and so on . I started to notice that there were some changes coming.
DM: In terms of your family life and your own home were things still good or did that start to shift as well?
NDN: Yes they were living a very good life at the farm. There was nothing bad.
DM: You said you lived there until you were 16 ... that means about 2002 right?
NDN: Yes, I lived there until 2002.
Ahmed Veriava (AV): Did you also have to help on the farm?
NDN: Yes I helped.
AV: What kind of work?
NDN: Like when they have planted maize we used to pour the fertilizer ..
AV: Were you just helping your father?
NDN: No they were giving us the so called piece jobs during the school holidays.
DM: Did you enjoy that or did you not like that?
NDN: No I didn't like it because if I liked it I should have been working there now.
DM: What were you wanting to do during your school holidays instead? What would you have preferred?
NDN: At school?
DM: No, when you were out ... instead of going and doing the fertilizer what would you have preferred to be doing?
NDN: I prefer to be working at the radio here.
DM: You have mentioned this about being a commentator ... where did that interest come from?
NDN: You know when you listen to radio and someone makes you interested and the kind of music also you know. And everything is just there when you need to play music because I like music and I also want to be a DJ. Soccer is close to radio ... some of the commentators comment on radio and also on television ... I can make it.
DM: So when you left the farm ... did you need to go to a different school .. why did you leave the farm?
NDN: My father leave the farm because they sold that farm. So they started to tell them to move to the location ... the new owners.
DM: So was just your father or was it most all of the workers on the farm?
NDN: All the workers on the farm.
DM: Why was that? Was it that the new people were not in farming anymore or what was the situation?
Ndaba David Nzunga: 2007-07-27: 5
NDN: They were not working like the (other) owner ... like ploughing and things. That guy is just working with the cows.
DM: So it was turned into a cattle farm. So your whole family moved with you here and you came to Ramulutsi. Why Ramulutsi, because it was closest place?
NDN: Yes it was the closest place.
DM: And family ... did you have any other family here?
NDN: Yes it is my brother.
DM: He was already living here?.
NDN: Yes he was living here.
DM: I mean he was already there when your family moved from the farm to Rammolutsi?
NDN: Yes.
DM: Tell us about that first year here or those first two or three years here ... what is was like, your living conditions, your situation, your schooling?
NDN: It was a little bit difficult because I was not used to many people here even at school I was a little bit scared to see a lot of children in one classroom. Because at the farm we were almost one school like this one class of the secondary school here. Ya, I was almost scared ...you know when you start to arrive at a place you seem to be cool to start to acclimatise with the situation ... but I get used to it and that thing is just gone like that and I get used to it and everything became simple.
DM: What about the living situation when you arrived here and your family?
NDN: Because I started to come here when I was doing Grade eight -which is standard six - my parents were still at the farm. They just built a small shack so I started staying here with my sister and attending the school. But the conditions were not good because I was separated from my parents and because I missed them. I always spend the time with them but now it is a challenge to live with a sister only, parents left behind. But I managed to go to them over the weekend.
AV: The shack that you were staying were was that?
NDN: It was still here.
AV: It was on this property?
NDN: Yes.
DM: So this one is your sister stand?
NDN: No it's my fathers, my parents.
DM: So were they allocated the stand when you got or was it before that?
NDN: It was before that.
Ndaba David Nzunga: 2007-07-27: 6
DM: So he had the stand already?
NDN: He had a stand already, yes.
DM: So he had built this mukhukhu here ... so you just moved in?
NDN: Yes, yes. But by the time they come here, they just extended it.
AV: So I'm just curious when did your parents leave the farm?
NDN: It was 2002.
AV: So why did they leave the farm?
NDN: Because the farm owners started to sell the farm, another one bought it.
DM: So you arrived here. Tell us a little bit ...you were 16 years old ... and you were talking about being a little bit afraid of being around so many people. But in terms of this place Rammolutsi, this was the first time you lived anywhere besides the farm. What were your other experiences when you moved here?
NDN: I started to see that there is a lot of people living here and that anything that you need you have to go to town or have to go to the shops in the location. This is a big place so you have to put effort you know. But I have to stick with my friends from the farm and we do things together unlike doing it alone ... because you don't know anything about the location.
DM: So most of your friends and others moved here as well when the farm closed down ... or changed?
NDN: It's like some of them were in front ... in standards or grades ... so some of them we get them here because they came here before.
DM: Tell us a little bit about what it was like to change the school ... going from the farm school to the High School here in Rammolutsi?
NDN: You have to get used to the teachers of the school because they are different. This one coming, maybe a man and after that coming a woman come teaching you in different language or in different ways. And then you seem to be afraid ... he or she does not look like that one at the farm because you get used to him and even after school you get the chance to talk to him or her.
DM: The kind of education you were receiving ... the differences and the way you have been taught and what you were learning?
NDN: There were differences. Sometimes at the farm when the teacher is exhausted the rest of the school relaxes and you are not encouraged to read and do this unless you push yourself. But here at the location they will tell you that you must read, you must complete your homework - everyday you are under pressure. But at the farm it was not everyday that you get the homework and even you get the homework you get one job of homework or one subject. But here at the location maybe the rest of the teachers will give you homework and you have to submit it the following day.
Ndaba David Nzunga: 2007-07-27: 7
DM: Did you start feeling when you started attending school here that you were moving up in terms of your education?
NDN: Yes I saw that I was moving up because before I wasn't even able to speak English. Then I saw that there is a difference coming. With my brother he was also staying with me and I started to enjoy that and he was encouraging me that now things are seeming to be a little bit different.
DM: You mentioned that when you lived on the farm most things were fairly easy like there was the water even though you had prepaid electricity ... What was it like when you moved here with your sister to try to get the basic services?
NDN: Always we used to hear our parents say that now we doing groceries for you and this one goes with us at the farm. So I started to see that they have to spend for us and you have to go and pay the rent at the municipality office, so I started to see that things are different now ... they are starting to pay and the expenses are increasing now.
DM: So you paid rent for the stand?
NDN: Yes.
DM: So how much was that?
NDN: It is up to you how much you pay according to the discussion with the office of the municipality. It can beR150.00 per month but you can even skip a month not paying.
AV: Does that include water?
NDN: Yes it includes water.
DM: What did you ... in terms of your life as a young teenager ....cause when you cam you were 16/17 and that is a time when you want to do a lot of things ... What did you find living in the location on that front .. the social front?
NDN: I started to see that when you are living in the location you get lot of information unlike at the farm but I started to see that I can do things on my own and start to talk to lot of people and share ideas because you will get good ideas from the people. But I learnt that all the people will not be good, some of them will give you wrong information, but you have to choose between right and wrong and then I started to see that I have to seek right information from the right people and use it correctly.
DM: As you began to gain this right information and be exposed to new kinds of things how did that impact on you? You mentioned earlier that you always used to argue with your father about politics. How did that interest you on the political side of the things?
NDN: I started to see now things and watch the news with him and understand a little bit. I started to show him the conditions ... why I'm going with this organisational party and why he is going with this one ... and I started to see the difference.
AV: When you say you started to see the difference, what was that difference?
NDN: Can I be specific? I started to see that he goes with the ANC because of the differences that happened at the farm. Then I started to show him that the Democratic Alliance that I am favouring it has this and this ... even if he didn't go. They used to say Ndaba David Nzunga: 2007-07-27: 8 that it's for whites only and I started to tell him no, the difference is that this one has never ruled before and it will maybe come to an oppositional party, but you seem to make a confusion here that the NNP have been ruling before and you want to say that the DA ruled before ... and that was the confusion they were making there.
AV: How did you get interested in the DA?
NDN: You know I like Tony Leon from the first time he is talking parliament. He is very arguing man ... you know when he talks he emphasise a thing but some of the people are avoiding questions ... and I started to see that these guys from the ANC and from the radio they are talking that no, like the ANC they are the Xhosa organisational party then I started to see that them, as blacks, they started to isolate each other. I can see that I can go with DA now and the opportunity if it comes to rule.
DM: So you formally joined? How old were you?
NDN: No. By the time I wanted to join my father approached me not to go with the politics, but the I did join it.
DM: Tell us about that ... because it is clear that this area is very heavy ANC area mostly. So how has it been for you when you made that political choice of going with a political party that is seen by a lot of people as being on the other side?
NDN: One thing that I told myself for sure is that I have the right to choose any organisational party I like and no one will tell me. For the first time there was a by- elections where members of the ANC ... I was a member of the ANC because of my father's choice, I joined the youth league and after that the membership expired ... during the elections of the ward committee I met with the ANC members and they saw me shaking hands with the whites and they asked me am I sure that I'm going with whites. I told the guy that no, it's not like they are whites only ... for example, Joe Seramane he is black and I don't have to be afraid that they are whites and some of the councilors they are black and in the DA. Then I promised to talk to him later about that because I'm not in the mood to talk to him about politics during that time.
DM: How have you followed that? How has the experience been for you as a political person supporting a party that is not very popular in the place that you live?
NDN: I like it because to be in an oppositional party is good because you are throwing them the challenges. When you are in the ruling (party) a lot of challenges are coming for you because you promise people this and that and you don't achieve them once. But you must remember that opposition party is right behind you - you must try to make by all means that you deliver and if you don't deliver, they are here.
AV: Why do you think opposition parties are necessary?
NDN: It is necessary because if it's not there ... for example, look at Mugabe and Zimbabwe - there is no strong opposition party like the DA. Mugabe is only working for his pocket ... why is he retrenching all the shops and telling people to go to court because of selling this and this? I think it is necessary for the benefit of the people that some people are caring with other community.
Ndaba David Nzunga: 2007-07-27: 9
AV: Do you think there is a danger of the ANC becoming like ZANU-PF?
NDN: Yes, it is possible because if they work like that it can lead there.
DM: In joining the DA ... what has that meant for you in terms of ... have you worked with people in Viljoenskroon because I'd imagine that most of the DA members are not in Rammolutsi?
NDN: No, we are here in Rammolutsi. But I only finished my matric last year so I haven't worked.
DM: Have you been to any meetings outside of this area, like Kroonstad ... ?
NDN: No, I didn't go to any meetings at all.
DM: You mentioned the fact that there were DA councillors in this area. Where is that?
NDN: They are ruling this ward here.
DM: This ward?
NDN: Yes.
DM: So they won the last elections?
NDN: Yes they have won the last elections. It is councillor David Shai and PR Makwele.
DM: So there are two DA ward councilors here representing this area?
NDN: Yes.
DM: When you look at those councilors and the other councilors in the community ... the other ward councillors ... do you think they have performed well?
NDN: Yes I think they are performing well. Because I have been in the ANC before and there are discrimination in the ANC because last year on June 16th we went to Bloemfontein but ANC councillors were also in the bus of youth. But they started to encourage the youth to useless things ... instead of going to listen to the speeches they told them that the taverns are available in Bloemfontein ... you can go and enjoy and at this time we are going to depart ... and all those stuff. They don't encourage them to be involved in the political things.
AV: As someone who was born after 1976 what does youth day mean to you?
NDN: Youth day to me means that youth were standing up fighting for their rights then we have to stand up and fight for our rights too and we see that the ANC councillors start to isolate us here because they say this ward here (Ward 25) is just a DA ward and you will never benefit when the municipality works and so on. Because if you are not a comrade of the ANC you won't benefit anything. Then I started to see that I have to take another way and not stick at one point. But one thing that I have realised during those elections, that when you make a move they are paying attention. During local elections there was a demarcation and they didn't inform or consult us here in ward 25 that the demarcation is going to affect you guys and you have to move to vote at another voting station ... then they let us vote for the councillor which is not our councillor now. The demarcation affected us and then the DA ruled with the vote of the town in this section - Ndaba David Nzunga: 2007-07-27: 10 hence our vote has gone to another ward. But before, if I was not going to move they should have come and tell me about the demarcation ... when I made a move they tell me about the demarcation ... I've already taken the decision that I'm moving - it's useless to be here without information.
DM: You have finished matric last year. So what kinds of things did you start getting involved in, in Rammolutsi outside the school?
NDN: I think it's only politics outside the school ... or else I played soccer and cricket.
DM: At the school or even now, outside even after you have finished?
NDN: In and out of the school.
DM: Tell us, are there teams around in Rammolutsi, like soccer teams?
NDN: No, unless I just accumulate guys here in the location and say lets go and play cricket we don't have a formal team here. We only play cricket when we want to play cricket.
DM: Just for having fun?
NDN: Yes.
AV: And soccer?
NDN: Yes soccer it's almost everyday.
AV: But you play in the streets?
NDN: Yes we play on the streets and on the weekends we play in the grounds, every afternoon.
DM: You got a league?
NDN: No we haven't registered a league. We are still deciding to register for playing in the league, but I played before in a team that was in the league but I started to panic that the ground is too far and I can't go there.
DM: How far was it that you had to go?
NDN: It's in that section of the location ... I didn't have time to go because we were going to school at 1 o'clock and we came out after 5 o'clock then you had to go to gym after school and there was no time then.
AV: Tell us about your involvement about the youth here around the issue about the community radio station?
NDN: Yes I mentioned that I liked the radio. Some of them are still asking me about the issues of the radio and I still tell them no, you have to be a little bit patient ... there are still things that we are still busy sorting them out but they will come again. They were very. very impressed about the community radio station that is coming ... they will like to see it existing.
AV: Tell us how did the project get started?
Ndaba David Nzunga: 2007-07-27: 11
NDN: At the start of the project I was not informed I just got it in the mail because there was a work shop ... when I started to attend there then I think it was during the school holidays because I was doing grade 11. I didn't get a chance to continue with the meeting as I was going to the school.
AV: There was a work shop about the community radio station, and what is happening with that project now?
NDN: Up to so far I informed those who are attending the project that now I'm in Grade 12 I have to focus and study, then I won't be able to make it to come to the meetings for the radio station.
DM: After you graduated last year from matric ... most of the time after graduation people start looking for work. So tell us about your situation over of last year?
NDN: I was very impressed of finishing my matric because I intend to go and make acting. I went to Joburg early this year and registered with the agency and maybe I will go to the auditions and so on so. I registered for acting and presenting and I was keen to make either acting or presenting. The one that would have come first I would have gone with it. I was very, very excited to see last year to come and keen to see myself in TV presenting or acting.
DM: You're at that age now when everything is in front of you, you know when you are looking there are lots of possibilities ... a lot of your friends I'm sure are the same way. How do you look in a place like Rammolutsi as a future for younger people?
NDN: There is no future here. This place is disadvantaged. A lot of things are not happening here, even if the mayor is staying here everything that happens here it goes to Kroonstad, not Viljoenskroon. Even if they ask people to go, the first priority is the people from that side right here at this side they don't inform them with everything. Like maybe there is a mayoral cup they have asked Kaizer Chiefs and Orlando Pirates to come and play ... they don't even recognise them to go there they just do their things on their own.
DM: What about opportunities for young people in this area?
NDN: No opportunity? I can't mention opportunities that are here because there is no opportunity here. The only opportunity I can say is that you are lucky working at the municipality.
DM: Have some of your friends managed to get ... all those friends you grew up with on the farm ... what is their situation? Are they doing things ...have they moved away?
NDN: One of my friends is working for the defence force but I don't like working for the defence force, it's too tough there. Another one is working in the industrial site and the other one is working at Pick'n Pay. They know that I'm choosy I don't feel like working just for saying I'm working ... because if you say you're working a lot of people will be looking and saying he is working and you must be earning something and you can do this and this. So I don't like to say I'm working and earning peanuts.
Ndaba David Nzunga: 2007-07-27: 12
AV: Earlier you were saying that you were keen to do acting and radio presenting. Have you ever thought of going and studying and furthering that ambition?
NDN: Yes I thought of going and studying broadcasting but while I'm listening to the radio they say it is not all about qualifications only if you are talented you can make it. I started to see that I don't think I can go and study that because I think I'm talented and I can make it.
DM: And for you making it, what would making it be for you? You said right at the beginning when we talked that you would like to be sports announcer? Or has that changed now?
NDN: You can even come to me when I'm sleeping and say here is the game, go and broadcast it, I can awake and just kick it like that ... and go and make it ... just like that ... there is nothing difficult for me when it comes to presenting generally nothing is difficult unless you say come and read the news ...oh!
DM: That will be a different thing?
NDN: Yes that would be a different thing.
DM: Why would that be different?
NDN: You have to study the script. The director or producer will have to combine the videos the tapes that they are going to play during the news and that needs focus. But presenting ... you have to read when you are going to read news and understand it when presenting people must see that this person understands what he's doing. One thing for sure you must know what you enjoy because what you like you are going to enjoy it, you are not going to doubt on doing it.
DM: Since you are now living here in this house with your mother ...in the last several years, how have your family made a living ... in other words income to be able to support you and finishing school?
NDN: That was my father only working in the farm but he was earning about R1900 and that was too much for him and he was able to maintain us and there was a surplus.
DM: So your father is still working in the farm?
NDN: No he died in 2005.
DM: So he passed in 2005?
NDN: Yes.
DM: So since that time how have you gotten by with your family?
NDN: We lived with his package from the farm where he worked. After that my mother registered for the grants ... so now she is the one who is maintaining the family with that money.
AV: Is that the pension grant?
NDN: Yes.
Ndaba David Nzunga: 2007-07-27: 13
DM: Just some last questions looking forward a bit. When you look around ... you've have now lived here many years. Clearly you want to move because you know, because of things you want to do. What do you see as the future for a place like Rammolutsi when you look at it now with your own experiences here ... what kinds of things do you think needs to happen in this community for younger people like yourself to be able, or maybe want, to stay?
NDN: I think things like community radio stations to bring information. If there is no information ... municipality must now start to focus, or the council itself, must now start to focus on the community and start to look out for those who want to invest in it. They must start to establish the projects, the firms and create such job opportunities and then there will be a future. Some of them will come with the building of the malls and the job creation can come from that. Even if they don't do that ... I have been here for a long time but I don't see any difference. That is why I just decided to move because here there is no future I think for me I want to see myself earning something better that staying here.
DM: Today this is 2007. How would you define success, not just for yourself but for any young person, in a country like South Africa, in a situation like this when you say I want to be a success?
NDN: South Africa is difficult itself because they encourage people to start their own business, encourage people to go to school and learn but after school there is no job and they demand experience. And when you want to start a business they want business plans to help you with the funds. Then success I definitely .. I don't know what to say even if to the future of the other kids I don't know what to say. I think if you go and study business management you must know that you have a business when you make business management so that you can easily manage your own business. But to go and manage other person's business is difficult because one thing for sure it is experience.You have got the qualifications but no experience.
DM: Have any of the youth programmes youth initiatives that have been started provincially like Umsombovu Youth Fund and all of this ... have they ever came to Rammolutsi?
NDN: No, they have never came to Rammolutsi, I have never seen them here.
DM: Lastly, not absolutely lastly ... getting back to a political issue. You very clearly explained your own political perspectives but when you look at the overall political situation since 1994, in the last 13 years since democracy came. What do you think needs to happen on the political front for all this other kinds of things that you have been talking to be realised?
NDN: One thing for sure is that they must now start to focus on small towns like this one. I can say rural areas according to them they are only based on big towns like Joburg and Cape Town when they only talk, they talk about that. But talking about Viljoenskroon, Kroonstad, Kopies, they are very, very small towns that they don't pay attention. Only what they say is that service delivery is there but they are not coming to see if it is really happening service delivery or not. But if you say this they will say that they are still coming ... only what they do is still coming and not implementing ... talking but no Ndaba David Nzunga: 2007-07-27: 14 implementation and implementation is important. The big mistake that happens to this government is they make their own decision then they want to consult people ...it is not going to work in that way. For example when I say they make their own decisions without consultation, what happens in Carltonville? They decided to make demarcation but they don't know whether that will suit the residents of Carltonville or not. Look what happened then there were no school attending then they went to start and talking to them and those things happen. In Denysville they killed the chief whip councillor of the ANC ... you see those things there is no consultation there. If there was consultation everything would have happened smoothly.
DM: There has been a lot of ... as someone who has been paying attention to the radio and the news you have been hearing in the last year or two years there has been a lot of these protests around the country around service delivery. It seems Rammolutsi has been pretty quiet on that front. Why?
NDN: Yes Rammolutsi has been quiet but it was nearly happened that ... because according to the projects that were happening here they ere not consulting with people this side -of Phahameng. As I mentioned before that they regard as a DA and they decided to isolate. We had the meetings but there we were not political, we went there as the community representatives. We started to talk to them to show them that the project has been taking place in the location and now you start to send ... when this sewerage installation here in the section ... you start to send your comrades in this section here while the people of this ward did not benefit for any project from the location. Now it is their chance to benefit from the projects then they start to send their fellow comrades. We stopped that and we asked them to work fair and we said we've got 8 wards and we must divide how many people from each ward must come here and if that does not happen we stop the project and you will hear from what we say. And it happens the way we want.
DM: So there have been certain successes in getting things changed?
NDN: Yes we got things changed. We even talked to the mayor that every project that comes they must consult with us, or inform us, so that we can send our people to go to work there, and she did the very same things.
DM: Two last things. You are entering a time of your life when it is very exciting, when there's lots of things possible. What do you think is possible both for yourself as well as maybe for family and your friends over the next five years or so?
NDN: It is possible for me to become a DA councillor or go and be a youth chairperson for the youth. It is possible for me because I saw that I have worked a lot and I have got a lot of votes and if they say I can stand for the lections I can win lots of votes. I can show them what do I mean by service delivery and lots of my friends are working so the competition is going to be tough so we have to show them that we are working.
DM: The last thing is we ask anyone that we interview ... is that if you have anything that you want to say? We have asked a lot of questions but maybe we didn't cover things maybe there are certain things that you would like to say and have the opportunity to say now.
Ndaba David Nzunga: 2007-07-27: 15
NDN: In school you didn't ask me what subjects did I study. I studied commerce, which is commercial subjects, economics, accounting and business economics and three languages, Sesotho, English and Afrikaans. I attended school in Thabang Secondary school as I completed last year My role model is Tshepo Masego who plays Parsons in Isidingo. My favourite radio station is Motsweding FM but I used to listen to 5FM to Fresh Drive ...I like the show because I like Fresh. .I want to be in a world of media, SABC this is where I want to be or work at the Department of Correctional Services - I like the department very well.
AV: Why the Department of Correctional Services?
NDN: I like their uniforms, it's nice, I like it. I like their cars, I used to see their cars coming around here .. I like the Department of Correctional Services. AV: I'm sure whatever you do you are going to do well.
DM: Ok, I think that's it.
NDN: That's it, thanks.
MINUTES: 72:47 Ndaba David Nzunga: 2007-07-27: 16
Date of interview: 2007-07-27
Location of interview: Rammolutsi, Free State
Language of interview: English
Name of Interviewer/s: Dale McKinley & Ahmed Veriava
Name of Interviewee/s: Ndaba David Nzunga
Name of transcriber: Moses Moremi
Audio file name: AHP_RAM_NzungaNdabaDavid_20070727 INTERVIEW WITH NDABA DAVID NZUNGA
Dale McKinley (DM): Thanks very much again for agreeing to talk to us
Ndabe David Nzungu (NDN): Yes.
DM: Can you just for the record state your full names please?
NDN: My name is Ndaba David Nzunga.
DM: David how old are you?
NDN: I'm 21.
DM: So were you born here in Rammolutsi?
NDN: No I was born in the farm.
DM: So you were born in the plaas?
NDN: Yes.
DM: And where was that?
NDN: It is Good Hope just right here in Viljoenskroon district .. it's about 20km away.
DM: So I'm assuming that your parents were working on the farm?
NDN: Yes.
DM: What kind of work were they doing on the farm?
NDN: They were ploughing and doing all the kind of stuff on the farm.
DM: How long did you stay on that farm?
NDN: I was born there and stayed there until I was about 16 years, I think so.
DM: So tell us and feel free to tell us about anything ... tell us about what it was like growing up on the farm?
NDN: It was very good because I didn't know anything about the life of the location. Life was very simple and easy for me because everything you need you to get it, unlike here in the location where you seem to spend a lot when you need some things.
Ndaba David Nzunga: 2007-07-27: 1
DM: What kind of things when you say you need it, you get it?
NDN: Like, at the farm we used to get milk ... everything is there and you don't need to buy and go to a shop to look for this and this. Here in the location is a struggle. First of all you buy electricity, you buy food, you buy everything - but at the farm you don't see anything they buy because the owner of the farm is providing that.
DM: What kind of the house did you live in there on the farm with your family?
NDN: We were not living in something like this shack we were living in a proper house, a four room house.
DM: Water and electricity situation?
NDN: Yes there was electricity ... everything was there.
DM: Did you go to school at the farm school?
NDN: Yes I started to attend school there at the farm. Firstly it was crèche, a pre school and then I went to the school there at the farm from Grade 1 up until Grade 7 which is Standard five.
DM: Tell us a little bit about that school ... the character of the education?
NDN: Education at the farm was good. Teachers are paying attention and doing their work full time. I started to see a difference when I arrived here at the location because they are teaching according to their periods like each teacher is 30 minutes ... that was a little bit different at the farms because at the farms there is one teacher at a time and everything becomes easy because you are used to the teacher.
DM: And in terms of the availability of books and materials like that?
NDN: Books were always available because they have got a surplus of books because maybe the student are about 30 to 40 or 50 but some of them are still available at their store room.
DM: How about the relationship between your family and the farmer ... how was that? NDN: The farmer ... you mean that owner of the farm?
DM: That's right
NDN: The relationship was good because those white people they were just good people like others, they respected each other, they know what a person is.
DM: Were they Afrikaners?
NDN: Yes they were Afrikaners.
DM: Tell us some things about what you did as a child at the farm ... how you spent you time?
NDN: I was playing soccer at that time and I liked to be like a soccer journalist you know ... usually when people are playing I used to be like a commentator because that was in my blood since I was born. Unfortunately I did not get my dream come true up to so far.
Ndaba David Nzunga: 2007-07-27: 2
DM: In terms of other things that you did on the farm ... could you go anywhere you wanted to?
NDN: Anywhere where I wanted to ... No, I didn't go anywhere I wanted to because every time you are at the farm we I don't go anywhere else because it seems like you don't care about other places because where you are staying is comfortable ... because you are staying with a lot of people that you know and you are comfortable with them. Every morning when you wake up you see this person cause you know him and enjoy playing with him or her.
DM: Now you are 21 years old and if I get my maths correct that means you were born in 1986 ... is that is correct?
NDN: Yes.
DM: By the early 1990s you were about 4 or 5 years old right ... when things started to change. What do you remember about that time when things in the country were starting to change after the un-banning of the ANC and other liberations movement?
NDN: I didn't know a lot about politics then and a lot of things that happen around the world. I was interested in the soccer but other things, no they didn't come into my mind like politics. I only learned about politics when I was in about Standard five then I saw the direction of what was happening then. By the last year Mr. FW De Klerk was the President ... I used to watch the news with my father but wasn't understanding English ... like when I ask him what he is saying , but he didn't translate well.
DM: What do you remember about 1994, about April when the elections ... ?
NDN: About the elections, I do remember when the people of the farm came to the elections here. Yes I did come here in the location to see what was happening, climbing in the tractor that was coming here. There were a lot of queues at the secondary schools here at the location. I definitely knew that there were elections here and that people were here to vote. Then some of them voted in the secondary schools, some of them in the public halls, some in the town hall -that is where I ended up - I was in town then to see how people are going to the elections because there were .... tapes there that were stopping people to not cross over ... but I was still young ... that is what I remember that the people were voting ... there were a lot of people.
DM: Did your family and all the workers on the farm come to vote?
NDN: Yes they did come to vote.
DM: What were your father and your mother telling you about this whole thing?
NDN: They were telling me that people are voting for the political parties that they liked and there was this motto of the politics that your vote is your voice or your vote is your secret ... you don't have to tell anyone about the party that you voted for.
DM: You remember that time quite well?
NDN: Yes I remember it.
Ndaba David Nzunga: 2007-07-27: 3
DM: Did you feel even as a young 8 year old at that point that there was a sense of excitement about things that were coming because of this?
NDN: My father liked politics and I used to spend time with him while I was growing up. We used to argue with him about the ruling party and we used to argue that these people are not delivering and they are not doing this and this correct. But according to him he said I must stop and focus on things that they are doing, not the things that I think they can do. I used to see that we will never be in the same organisation or political party.
DM: So he was a very strong supporter of the government?
NDN: Yes he was because he used to watch the news ... I think he was a supporter.
DM: After 1994, did anything change on the farm ... the life you had experienced before?
NDN: Everything changed after that. I saw that the farm owners put the pre paid electricity whereby you have to take out some money to buy electricity. But before there was nothing like that, they were just coming and write the meter of the electricity that seems like nothing ... we were not buying electricity but they were paying for the electricity. They started to give people milk for free and I used to hear that when my father talked ... that when they wanted the wood for fire they were buying them but before they were not buying them ...
DM: So how did you understand why that changed?
NDN: The only thing that makes me understand what they changed is that there were other people who were starting to join the unions ... like when my father used to talk to my mother I used to listen sometimes ... he use to say that the farm owner told them to go to that Mandela maybe he will provide them with anything ... so I used to hear that there is some changes about the ruling of the ANC.
DM: Did you think that the changes had made the relationship worse on the farm ... how did you feel as a young child?
NDN: The new ruling of the ANC has changed the relationship a lot ... a lot of changes have happened there. So I saw that ANC has come with a difference between the owners of the farm and the workers. Some of the workers were not trusted by the owners of the farms according to my point of view ... because even if you lend a tractor to come to bring some food for your children at the location they were estimating you a time but for some people there was no time estimation.
DM: You stayed on that farm all throughout the 1990s. As the time after the first or second year after 1994 ... when these changes started to happen ... were there any differences say from '96 to 2000 in terms of the kinds of things that you used to have on the farm ... for example, the living standards, the housing, the basics services?
NDN: The things that we were not able to get at the farm was the street lights. They started to install the street lights. I used to hear the journalist on the radio say that the farmers must provide the street lights and provide the transport for the people who live in the farm so that they can come to town every month and do anything they like. And, that Ndaba David Nzunga: 2007-07-27: 4 they must start to make things like the bank account for the people who live in the farms and so on . I started to notice that there were some changes coming.
DM: In terms of your family life and your own home were things still good or did that start to shift as well?
NDN: Yes they were living a very good life at the farm. There was nothing bad.
DM: You said you lived there until you were 16 ... that means about 2002 right?
NDN: Yes, I lived there until 2002.
Ahmed Veriava (AV): Did you also have to help on the farm?
NDN: Yes I helped.
AV: What kind of work?
NDN: Like when they have planted maize we used to pour the fertilizer ..
AV: Were you just helping your father?
NDN: No they were giving us the so called piece jobs during the school holidays.
DM: Did you enjoy that or did you not like that?
NDN: No I didn't like it because if I liked it I should have been working there now.
DM: What were you wanting to do during your school holidays instead? What would you have preferred?
NDN: At school?
DM: No, when you were out ... instead of going and doing the fertilizer what would you have preferred to be doing?
NDN: I prefer to be working at the radio here.
DM: You have mentioned this about being a commentator ... where did that interest come from?
NDN: You know when you listen to radio and someone makes you interested and the kind of music also you know. And everything is just there when you need to play music because I like music and I also want to be a DJ. Soccer is close to radio ... some of the commentators comment on radio and also on television ... I can make it.
DM: So when you left the farm ... did you need to go to a different school .. why did you leave the farm?
NDN: My father leave the farm because they sold that farm. So they started to tell them to move to the location ... the new owners.
DM: So was just your father or was it most all of the workers on the farm?
NDN: All the workers on the farm.
DM: Why was that? Was it that the new people were not in farming anymore or what was the situation?
Ndaba David Nzunga: 2007-07-27: 5
NDN: They were not working like the (other) owner ... like ploughing and things. That guy is just working with the cows.
DM: So it was turned into a cattle farm. So your whole family moved with you here and you came to Ramulutsi. Why Ramulutsi, because it was closest place?
NDN: Yes it was the closest place.
DM: And family ... did you have any other family here?
NDN: Yes it is my brother.
DM: He was already living here?.
NDN: Yes he was living here.
DM: I mean he was already there when your family moved from the farm to Rammolutsi?
NDN: Yes.
DM: Tell us about that first year here or those first two or three years here ... what is was like, your living conditions, your situation, your schooling?
NDN: It was a little bit difficult because I was not used to many people here even at school I was a little bit scared to see a lot of children in one classroom. Because at the farm we were almost one school like this one class of the secondary school here. Ya, I was almost scared ...you know when you start to arrive at a place you seem to be cool to start to acclimatise with the situation ... but I get used to it and that thing is just gone like that and I get used to it and everything became simple.
DM: What about the living situation when you arrived here and your family?
NDN: Because I started to come here when I was doing Grade eight -which is standard six - my parents were still at the farm. They just built a small shack so I started staying here with my sister and attending the school. But the conditions were not good because I was separated from my parents and because I missed them. I always spend the time with them but now it is a challenge to live with a sister only, parents left behind. But I managed to go to them over the weekend.
AV: The shack that you were staying were was that?
NDN: It was still here.
AV: It was on this property?
NDN: Yes.
DM: So this one is your sister stand?
NDN: No it's my fathers, my parents.
DM: So were they allocated the stand when you got or was it before that?
NDN: It was before that.
Ndaba David Nzunga: 2007-07-27: 6
DM: So he had the stand already?
NDN: He had a stand already, yes.
DM: So he had built this mukhukhu here ... so you just moved in?
NDN: Yes, yes. But by the time they come here, they just extended it.
AV: So I'm just curious when did your parents leave the farm?
NDN: It was 2002.
AV: So why did they leave the farm?
NDN: Because the farm owners started to sell the farm, another one bought it.
DM: So you arrived here. Tell us a little bit ...you were 16 years old ... and you were talking about being a little bit afraid of being around so many people. But in terms of this place Rammolutsi, this was the first time you lived anywhere besides the farm. What were your other experiences when you moved here?
NDN: I started to see that there is a lot of people living here and that anything that you need you have to go to town or have to go to the shops in the location. This is a big place so you have to put effort you know. But I have to stick with my friends from the farm and we do things together unlike doing it alone ... because you don't know anything about the location.
DM: So most of your friends and others moved here as well when the farm closed down ... or changed?
NDN: It's like some of them were in front ... in standards or grades ... so some of them we get them here because they came here before.
DM: Tell us a little bit about what it was like to change the school ... going from the farm school to the High School here in Rammolutsi?
NDN: You have to get used to the teachers of the school because they are different. This one coming, maybe a man and after that coming a woman come teaching you in different language or in different ways. And then you seem to be afraid ... he or she does not look like that one at the farm because you get used to him and even after school you get the chance to talk to him or her.
DM: The kind of education you were receiving ... the differences and the way you have been taught and what you were learning?
NDN: There were differences. Sometimes at the farm when the teacher is exhausted the rest of the school relaxes and you are not encouraged to read and do this unless you push yourself. But here at the location they will tell you that you must read, you must complete your homework - everyday you are under pressure. But at the farm it was not everyday that you get the homework and even you get the homework you get one job of homework or one subject. But here at the location maybe the rest of the teachers will give you homework and you have to submit it the following day.
Ndaba David Nzunga: 2007-07-27: 7
DM: Did you start feeling when you started attending school here that you were moving up in terms of your education?
NDN: Yes I saw that I was moving up because before I wasn't even able to speak English. Then I saw that there is a difference coming. With my brother he was also staying with me and I started to enjoy that and he was encouraging me that now things are seeming to be a little bit different.
DM: You mentioned that when you lived on the farm most things were fairly easy like there was the water even though you had prepaid electricity ... What was it like when you moved here with your sister to try to get the basic services?
NDN: Always we used to hear our parents say that now we doing groceries for you and this one goes with us at the farm. So I started to see that they have to spend for us and you have to go and pay the rent at the municipality office, so I started to see that things are different now ... they are starting to pay and the expenses are increasing now.
DM: So you paid rent for the stand?
NDN: Yes.
DM: So how much was that?
NDN: It is up to you how much you pay according to the discussion with the office of the municipality. It can beR150.00 per month but you can even skip a month not paying.
AV: Does that include water?
NDN: Yes it includes water.
DM: What did you ... in terms of your life as a young teenager ....cause when you cam you were 16/17 and that is a time when you want to do a lot of things ... What did you find living in the location on that front .. the social front?
NDN: I started to see that when you are living in the location you get lot of information unlike at the farm but I started to see that I can do things on my own and start to talk to lot of people and share ideas because you will get good ideas from the people. But I learnt that all the people will not be good, some of them will give you wrong information, but you have to choose between right and wrong and then I started to see that I have to seek right information from the right people and use it correctly.
DM: As you began to gain this right information and be exposed to new kinds of things how did that impact on you? You mentioned earlier that you always used to argue with your father about politics. How did that interest you on the political side of the things?
NDN: I started to see now things and watch the news with him and understand a little bit. I started to show him the conditions ... why I'm going with this organisational party and why he is going with this one ... and I started to see the difference.
AV: When you say you started to see the difference, what was that difference?
NDN: Can I be specific? I started to see that he goes with the ANC because of the differences that happened at the farm. Then I started to show him that the Democratic Alliance that I am favouring it has this and this ... even if he didn't go. They used to say Ndaba David Nzunga: 2007-07-27: 8 that it's for whites only and I started to tell him no, the difference is that this one has never ruled before and it will maybe come to an oppositional party, but you seem to make a confusion here that the NNP have been ruling before and you want to say that the DA ruled before ... and that was the confusion they were making there.
AV: How did you get interested in the DA?
NDN: You know I like Tony Leon from the first time he is talking parliament. He is very arguing man ... you know when he talks he emphasise a thing but some of the people are avoiding questions ... and I started to see that these guys from the ANC and from the radio they are talking that no, like the ANC they are the Xhosa organisational party then I started to see that them, as blacks, they started to isolate each other. I can see that I can go with DA now and the opportunity if it comes to rule.
DM: So you formally joined? How old were you?
NDN: No. By the time I wanted to join my father approached me not to go with the politics, but the I did join it.
DM: Tell us about that ... because it is clear that this area is very heavy ANC area mostly. So how has it been for you when you made that political choice of going with a political party that is seen by a lot of people as being on the other side?
NDN: One thing that I told myself for sure is that I have the right to choose any organisational party I like and no one will tell me. For the first time there was a by- elections where members of the ANC ... I was a member of the ANC because of my father's choice, I joined the youth league and after that the membership expired ... during the elections of the ward committee I met with the ANC members and they saw me shaking hands with the whites and they asked me am I sure that I'm going with whites. I told the guy that no, it's not like they are whites only ... for example, Joe Seramane he is black and I don't have to be afraid that they are whites and some of the councilors they are black and in the DA. Then I promised to talk to him later about that because I'm not in the mood to talk to him about politics during that time.
DM: How have you followed that? How has the experience been for you as a political person supporting a party that is not very popular in the place that you live?
NDN: I like it because to be in an oppositional party is good because you are throwing them the challenges. When you are in the ruling (party) a lot of challenges are coming for you because you promise people this and that and you don't achieve them once. But you must remember that opposition party is right behind you - you must try to make by all means that you deliver and if you don't deliver, they are here.
AV: Why do you think opposition parties are necessary?
NDN: It is necessary because if it's not there ... for example, look at Mugabe and Zimbabwe - there is no strong opposition party like the DA. Mugabe is only working for his pocket ... why is he retrenching all the shops and telling people to go to court because of selling this and this? I think it is necessary for the benefit of the people that some people are caring with other community.
Ndaba David Nzunga: 2007-07-27: 9
AV: Do you think there is a danger of the ANC becoming like ZANU-PF?
NDN: Yes, it is possible because if they work like that it can lead there.
DM: In joining the DA ... what has that meant for you in terms of ... have you worked with people in Viljoenskroon because I'd imagine that most of the DA members are not in Rammolutsi?
NDN: No, we are here in Rammolutsi. But I only finished my matric last year so I haven't worked.
DM: Have you been to any meetings outside of this area, like Kroonstad ... ?
NDN: No, I didn't go to any meetings at all.
DM: You mentioned the fact that there were DA councillors in this area. Where is that?
NDN: They are ruling this ward here.
DM: This ward?
NDN: Yes.
DM: So they won the last elections?
NDN: Yes they have won the last elections. It is councillor David Shai and PR Makwele.
DM: So there are two DA ward councilors here representing this area?
NDN: Yes.
DM: When you look at those councilors and the other councilors in the community ... the other ward councillors ... do you think they have performed well?
NDN: Yes I think they are performing well. Because I have been in the ANC before and there are discrimination in the ANC because last year on June 16th we went to Bloemfontein but ANC councillors were also in the bus of youth. But they started to encourage the youth to useless things ... instead of going to listen to the speeches they told them that the taverns are available in Bloemfontein ... you can go and enjoy and at this time we are going to depart ... and all those stuff. They don't encourage them to be involved in the political things.
AV: As someone who was born after 1976 what does youth day mean to you?
NDN: Youth day to me means that youth were standing up fighting for their rights then we have to stand up and fight for our rights too and we see that the ANC councillors start to isolate us here because they say this ward here (Ward 25) is just a DA ward and you will never benefit when the municipality works and so on. Because if you are not a comrade of the ANC you won't benefit anything. Then I started to see that I have to take another way and not stick at one point. But one thing that I have realised during those elections, that when you make a move they are paying attention. During local elections there was a demarcation and they didn't inform or consult us here in ward 25 that the demarcation is going to affect you guys and you have to move to vote at another voting station ... then they let us vote for the councillor which is not our councillor now. The demarcation affected us and then the DA ruled with the vote of the town in this section - Ndaba David Nzunga: 2007-07-27: 10 hence our vote has gone to another ward. But before, if I was not going to move they should have come and tell me about the demarcation ... when I made a move they tell me about the demarcation ... I've already taken the decision that I'm moving - it's useless to be here without information.
DM: You have finished matric last year. So what kinds of things did you start getting involved in, in Rammolutsi outside the school?
NDN: I think it's only politics outside the school ... or else I played soccer and cricket.
DM: At the school or even now, outside even after you have finished?
NDN: In and out of the school.
DM: Tell us, are there teams around in Rammolutsi, like soccer teams?
NDN: No, unless I just accumulate guys here in the location and say lets go and play cricket we don't have a formal team here. We only play cricket when we want to play cricket.
DM: Just for having fun?
NDN: Yes.
AV: And soccer?
NDN: Yes soccer it's almost everyday.
AV: But you play in the streets?
NDN: Yes we play on the streets and on the weekends we play in the grounds, every afternoon.
DM: You got a league?
NDN: No we haven't registered a league. We are still deciding to register for playing in the league, but I played before in a team that was in the league but I started to panic that the ground is too far and I can't go there.
DM: How far was it that you had to go?
NDN: It's in that section of the location ... I didn't have time to go because we were going to school at 1 o'clock and we came out after 5 o'clock then you had to go to gym after school and there was no time then.
AV: Tell us about your involvement about the youth here around the issue about the community radio station?
NDN: Yes I mentioned that I liked the radio. Some of them are still asking me about the issues of the radio and I still tell them no, you have to be a little bit patient ... there are still things that we are still busy sorting them out but they will come again. They were very. very impressed about the community radio station that is coming ... they will like to see it existing.
AV: Tell us how did the project get started?
Ndaba David Nzunga: 2007-07-27: 11
NDN: At the start of the project I was not informed I just got it in the mail because there was a work shop ... when I started to attend there then I think it was during the school holidays because I was doing grade 11. I didn't get a chance to continue with the meeting as I was going to the school.
AV: There was a work shop about the community radio station, and what is happening with that project now?
NDN: Up to so far I informed those who are attending the project that now I'm in Grade 12 I have to focus and study, then I won't be able to make it to come to the meetings for the radio station.
DM: After you graduated last year from matric ... most of the time after graduation people start looking for work. So tell us about your situation over of last year?
NDN: I was very impressed of finishing my matric because I intend to go and make acting. I went to Joburg early this year and registered with the agency and maybe I will go to the auditions and so on so. I registered for acting and presenting and I was keen to make either acting or presenting. The one that would have come first I would have gone with it. I was very, very excited to see last year to come and keen to see myself in TV presenting or acting.
DM: You're at that age now when everything is in front of you, you know when you are looking there are lots of possibilities ... a lot of your friends I'm sure are the same way. How do you look in a place like Rammolutsi as a future for younger people?
NDN: There is no future here. This place is disadvantaged. A lot of things are not happening here, even if the mayor is staying here everything that happens here it goes to Kroonstad, not Viljoenskroon. Even if they ask people to go, the first priority is the people from that side right here at this side they don't inform them with everything. Like maybe there is a mayoral cup they have asked Kaizer Chiefs and Orlando Pirates to come and play ... they don't even recognise them to go there they just do their things on their own.
DM: What about opportunities for young people in this area?
NDN: No opportunity? I can't mention opportunities that are here because there is no opportunity here. The only opportunity I can say is that you are lucky working at the municipality.
DM: Have some of your friends managed to get ... all those friends you grew up with on the farm ... what is their situation? Are they doing things ...have they moved away?
NDN: One of my friends is working for the defence force but I don't like working for the defence force, it's too tough there. Another one is working in the industrial site and the other one is working at Pick'n Pay. They know that I'm choosy I don't feel like working just for saying I'm working ... because if you say you're working a lot of people will be looking and saying he is working and you must be earning something and you can do this and this. So I don't like to say I'm working and earning peanuts.
Ndaba David Nzunga: 2007-07-27: 12
AV: Earlier you were saying that you were keen to do acting and radio presenting. Have you ever thought of going and studying and furthering that ambition?
NDN: Yes I thought of going and studying broadcasting but while I'm listening to the radio they say it is not all about qualifications only if you are talented you can make it. I started to see that I don't think I can go and study that because I think I'm talented and I can make it.
DM: And for you making it, what would making it be for you? You said right at the beginning when we talked that you would like to be sports announcer? Or has that changed now?
NDN: You can even come to me when I'm sleeping and say here is the game, go and broadcast it, I can awake and just kick it like that ... and go and make it ... just like that ... there is nothing difficult for me when it comes to presenting generally nothing is difficult unless you say come and read the news ...oh!
DM: That will be a different thing?
NDN: Yes that would be a different thing.
DM: Why would that be different?
NDN: You have to study the script. The director or producer will have to combine the videos the tapes that they are going to play during the news and that needs focus. But presenting ... you have to read when you are going to read news and understand it when presenting people must see that this person understands what he's doing. One thing for sure you must know what you enjoy because what you like you are going to enjoy it, you are not going to doubt on doing it.
DM: Since you are now living here in this house with your mother ...in the last several years, how have your family made a living ... in other words income to be able to support you and finishing school?
NDN: That was my father only working in the farm but he was earning about R1900 and that was too much for him and he was able to maintain us and there was a surplus.
DM: So your father is still working in the farm?
NDN: No he died in 2005.
DM: So he passed in 2005?
NDN: Yes.
DM: So since that time how have you gotten by with your family?
NDN: We lived with his package from the farm where he worked. After that my mother registered for the grants ... so now she is the one who is maintaining the family with that money.
AV: Is that the pension grant?
NDN: Yes.
Ndaba David Nzunga: 2007-07-27: 13
DM: Just some last questions looking forward a bit. When you look around ... you've have now lived here many years. Clearly you want to move because you know, because of things you want to do. What do you see as the future for a place like Rammolutsi when you look at it now with your own experiences here ... what kinds of things do you think needs to happen in this community for younger people like yourself to be able, or maybe want, to stay?
NDN: I think things like community radio stations to bring information. If there is no information ... municipality must now start to focus, or the council itself, must now start to focus on the community and start to look out for those who want to invest in it. They must start to establish the projects, the firms and create such job opportunities and then there will be a future. Some of them will come with the building of the malls and the job creation can come from that. Even if they don't do that ... I have been here for a long time but I don't see any difference. That is why I just decided to move because here there is no future I think for me I want to see myself earning something better that staying here.
DM: Today this is 2007. How would you define success, not just for yourself but for any young person, in a country like South Africa, in a situation like this when you say I want to be a success?
NDN: South Africa is difficult itself because they encourage people to start their own business, encourage people to go to school and learn but after school there is no job and they demand experience. And when you want to start a business they want business plans to help you with the funds. Then success I definitely .. I don't know what to say even if to the future of the other kids I don't know what to say. I think if you go and study business management you must know that you have a business when you make business management so that you can easily manage your own business. But to go and manage other person's business is difficult because one thing for sure it is experience.You have got the qualifications but no experience.
DM: Have any of the youth programmes youth initiatives that have been started provincially like Umsombovu Youth Fund and all of this ... have they ever came to Rammolutsi?
NDN: No, they have never came to Rammolutsi, I have never seen them here.
DM: Lastly, not absolutely lastly ... getting back to a political issue. You very clearly explained your own political perspectives but when you look at the overall political situation since 1994, in the last 13 years since democracy came. What do you think needs to happen on the political front for all this other kinds of things that you have been talking to be realised?
NDN: One thing for sure is that they must now start to focus on small towns like this one. I can say rural areas according to them they are only based on big towns like Joburg and Cape Town when they only talk, they talk about that. But talking about Viljoenskroon, Kroonstad, Kopies, they are very, very small towns that they don't pay attention. Only what they say is that service delivery is there but they are not coming to see if it is really happening service delivery or not. But if you say this they will say that they are still coming ... only what they do is still coming and not implementing ... talking but no Ndaba David Nzunga: 2007-07-27: 14 implementation and implementation is important. The big mistake that happens to this government is they make their own decision then they want to consult people ...it is not going to work in that way. For example when I say they make their own decisions without consultation, what happens in Carltonville? They decided to make demarcation but they don't know whether that will suit the residents of Carltonville or not. Look what happened then there were no school attending then they went to start and talking to them and those things happen. In Denysville they killed the chief whip councillor of the ANC ... you see those things there is no consultation there. If there was consultation everything would have happened smoothly.
DM: There has been a lot of ... as someone who has been paying attention to the radio and the news you have been hearing in the last year or two years there has been a lot of these protests around the country around service delivery. It seems Rammolutsi has been pretty quiet on that front. Why?
NDN: Yes Rammolutsi has been quiet but it was nearly happened that ... because according to the projects that were happening here they ere not consulting with people this side -of Phahameng. As I mentioned before that they regard as a DA and they decided to isolate. We had the meetings but there we were not political, we went there as the community representatives. We started to talk to them to show them that the project has been taking place in the location and now you start to send ... when this sewerage installation here in the section ... you start to send your comrades in this section here while the people of this ward did not benefit for any project from the location. Now it is their chance to benefit from the projects then they start to send their fellow comrades. We stopped that and we asked them to work fair and we said we've got 8 wards and we must divide how many people from each ward must come here and if that does not happen we stop the project and you will hear from what we say. And it happens the way we want.
DM: So there have been certain successes in getting things changed?
NDN: Yes we got things changed. We even talked to the mayor that every project that comes they must consult with us, or inform us, so that we can send our people to go to work there, and she did the very same things.
DM: Two last things. You are entering a time of your life when it is very exciting, when there's lots of things possible. What do you think is possible both for yourself as well as maybe for family and your friends over the next five years or so?
NDN: It is possible for me to become a DA councillor or go and be a youth chairperson for the youth. It is possible for me because I saw that I have worked a lot and I have got a lot of votes and if they say I can stand for the lections I can win lots of votes. I can show them what do I mean by service delivery and lots of my friends are working so the competition is going to be tough so we have to show them that we are working.
DM: The last thing is we ask anyone that we interview ... is that if you have anything that you want to say? We have asked a lot of questions but maybe we didn't cover things maybe there are certain things that you would like to say and have the opportunity to say now.
Ndaba David Nzunga: 2007-07-27: 15
NDN: In school you didn't ask me what subjects did I study. I studied commerce, which is commercial subjects, economics, accounting and business economics and three languages, Sesotho, English and Afrikaans. I attended school in Thabang Secondary school as I completed last year My role model is Tshepo Masego who plays Parsons in Isidingo. My favourite radio station is Motsweding FM but I used to listen to 5FM to Fresh Drive ...I like the show because I like Fresh. .I want to be in a world of media, SABC this is where I want to be or work at the Department of Correctional Services - I like the department very well.
AV: Why the Department of Correctional Services?
NDN: I like their uniforms, it's nice, I like it. I like their cars, I used to see their cars coming around here .. I like the Department of Correctional Services. AV: I'm sure whatever you do you are going to do well.
DM: Ok, I think that's it.
NDN: That's it, thanks.
MINUTES: 72:47 Ndaba David Nzunga: 2007-07-27: 16
Transcript: Download (78 KB)
SAHA
Related Objects
David Nzungu, an unemployed community activist and music enthusiast of Rammolutsi, during an interview with Dale McKinley and Ahmed Veriava. (2007)
Courtesy of SAHA
Creator: McKinley, Dale
Veriava, Ahmed
Nzunga, Ndaba
Veriava, Ahmed
Nzunga, Ndaba
Contributing Institutions: SAHA; MATRIX: The Center for Humane Arts, Letters and Social Sciences Online at Michigan State University
Contributor: Moses Moremi (Transcriber)
Biography: Twenty-one years old at the time of the interview, like many Rammolutsi residents, Ndaba David Nzunga was born on a nearby farm. He lived there with his family until he was sixteen, when he and his family moved to Rammolutsi where they built a shack on an allocated stand. David gained his matric in 2006 and was actively involved in student affairs. He is involved in community sports initiatives as well as in youth activities. He joined the Democratic Alliance (DA) in the same year and has since been active in its Rammolutsi structures. He and his mother and siblings live
off their deceased father’s pension. David wants to move to Johannesburg and become a radio music DJ, or alternatively join the Department of Correctional Services.
Description: This interview with Ndaba David Nzunga, an unemployed community youth activist and music enthusiast, was conducted by Dale McKinley and Ahmed Veriava in Rammolutsi in 2007 as part of the South African History Archive's Alternative History Project, titled 'Forgotten Voices in the Present'.
Date: July 27, 2007
Location: Rammolutsi, Free State, Republic of South Africa
Format: Audio/mp3
Language: English
Rights Management: For educational use only.
Digitizer: SAHA
Source: SAHA collection AL3280
